How boring is javascript?

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How boring is javascript?

Postby MaxD » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:51 pm

Bought a few books on javascript, and browsing through and testing a few things out, its not exciting at all. I think part of the problem is the books. They start with 'Hello World' and progress thereafter to a 'Bingo Card', neither of which are very interesting. Perhaps scripts which you might actually use would be better, or perhaps a script to tweak something you are familiar with, e.g. a google map :?:

This is a case where the online interactive tutorials win out.
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Postby multifarious » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:28 pm

IMO javascript, as any other programming language, is as exciting as a box of lego bricks.. without a clear idea of what you're going to do with it it's just that: a box with bricks.. it's what you're planning to do with the bricks that make up the excitement, or at least the promise that you CAN do stuff with the bricks...

As for books, Sitepoint has several very good and exciting books on the topic (www.sitepoint.com).. (reality related ;))
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Postby daredare » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:55 pm

yes its true about the books, anyway i would suggest 2 books for starting:
simply javascript wich is not bad, and Apress: "Beginning JavaScript with DOM Scripting and Ajax from Novice to Professional " this one is good because it doesnt deal much with customs libraries wich is good when you start learning.
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Postby MaxD » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:01 pm

Its one thing a bookshop has over Amazon, in that you can see what you get before you buy. Would have saved some purchases. Thanks for the tips on the books. :) The one thing about a hobby is, I don't actually have to learn javascript, so am giving it a rest and gravitating towards that which is easiest (or looks it) which is: http://jquery.com/

The front page patter has me sold:
You start with 10 lines of jQuery that would have been 20 lines of tedious DOM JavaScript. By the time you are done it's down to two or three lines and it couldn't get any shorter unless it read your mind.


Also have started php, and it makes more sense.... :wink:
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Postby Karlis » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:23 am

javascript = really boring (but useful)
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Postby multifarious » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:10 pm

[another troll here, igniting a forumwide flamewar on how exciting JavaScript is]

:P
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Postby MaxD » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 pm

Maybe boring was the wrong word :wink: but javascript seems a bit mixed up which makes it a chore to get to grips with for the average hobbyist. Any guide author will have his work cut out to make it accessible to the non tutored. Even Google has made an application which converts java to web friendly javascript, as it can be a problem.

If jquery makes scripts more accessible then that has to be better.
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Postby chrisjlocke » Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:11 pm

I think the greatest challenge is the browser standards (or lack thereof). When coding with PHP, (going back to the box o' bricks) you can use the whole box and design what you like how you like. With Javascript, you are more confined - you can only use the blue bricks, or just those horrible bricks with the slopey bits. You have to write code fitting in around particular browsers. Some browsers expose this bit of the DOM, but IE5 doesn't, etc.
I haven't played much with it, but I've heard my collegue swearing and cursing about it! ;)
I guess its OK when you get used to it, but theres nothing worse getting a large script to work fine on Firefox, only to show it off to your mates and find it doesn't work in IE7! ;)
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Postby MaxD » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:11 pm

Don't mention the slopey bricks... :roll: Browsed a pretty good book on javascript. There's DOM scripts and non-standard innerHtml scripts (with pros and cons) etc, plus various ways of writing code. All well and good until you want to modify something, and have to work out how it was written.

Installed xammp, got a book on php and it seems better. :)
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Postby multifarious » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:15 pm

hmm... a lot of confusion around here it seems...

1. php doesn't let you do the things you can do with javascript and the other way round: php runs solely on the server whereas JS runs inside the client. So, in short, there's NO way whatsoever you can compare the two.

2. Google has made an application which converts java to web friendly javascript, as it can be a problem.


eeeh... wot? wot? wot? interesting idea but before linkage I have a hard time believing this: Java has nothing at all to do with JavaScript and the other way round. They both have a very different role to play within the web: java runs within a java-server or a java applet, none of which can communicate directly with the client (browser) as javascript can.


3. a chore to get to grips with for the average hobbyist
Well, actually, a lot of the current javascript incarnation's issues could be solved if they didn't persist in keeping it (web-technologies in general) accessable to the average hobbyist. For the average proffesional this is quite annoying..
And really, the days of easy webdevelopment are gone for a long time. That is, if yuo want to get more out of your page then 'just' another wordpress-template-blog. I personally think that's a good thing; people finally start taking my proffession seriously. Which is ample reward for stiking in the amount of time the average serious web proffesional has.

An important part of our (webdevelopers) expertise is knowing about the differences between platforms (browsers, os, hardware), their limitations and quirks. A webdeveloper will then also know it's not the fault of JavaScript neither HTML or CSS: it's the platform developers which mke a mess of things, we're just bending the rules to conform (any specific design) to their atrocities.
We're just trying to make perfect applications for an imperfect system. To me, that's part of the fun, part of the challenge. If that's not your cup of tea.. well.. then MAYBE this isn't the right hobby for you?

[/rant]

(oh, in case you guys didn't notice: I'm still enjoying Javascript a lot, even after 10+ years ;))
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Postby Gizmor » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:13 pm

I love JavaScript! :)
But it's a hard, long and sometimes a boring way to get there :)

PHP you can learn in a couple of hours to do some basics. JavaScript will need much more time until you understand how it works.
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Postby MaxD » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:15 am

Gizmor wrote:
PHP you can learn in a couple of hours to do some basics. JavaScript will need much more time until you understand how it works.


Not sure about a couple of hours :? but that is what I plan. Understand php better first, as I figure it will give me a springboard to javascript. I have javascripts on my sites, and they wouldn't be the same without them. But I want to take two cool javascripts, and make them into one super cool javascript :evil: and that may take some time... :roll:

Not too bothered about the differences between javascript, php and java...knew that already. Its just a learning experience. :wink:

eeeh... wot? wot? wot? interesting idea but before linkage I have a hard time believing this: Java has nothing at all to do with JavaScript and the other way round. They both have a very different role to play within the web: java runs within a java-server or a java applet, none of which can communicate directly with the client (browser) as javascript can.


And the application I mentioned? here it is: Google java to javascript tool
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Postby multifarious » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:03 pm

And the application I mentioned? here it is


Aaaah... now THIS is interesting indeed. Thanks for the linkage.
What I get from it is that it doesn't so much translates your java-application to a javascript equivalent (which is inherently impossible for the bulk of java applications out there) but takes care of the whole front-end side of things. Pretty much negating the use of a java applet and enabeling your application to run in the browser's complete window.
That's pretty impressive nonetheless so, thanks again for the link ;)
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Postby daredare » Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:15 pm

Gizmor wrote:I love JavaScript! :)
But it's a hard, long and sometimes a boring way to get there :)

PHP you can learn in a couple of hours to do some basics. JavaScript will need much more time until you understand how it works.

i agree
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Postby MaxD » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:12 am

Any opinions on using jquery to do the work of javscripts? Also Multifarious described jquery as a 'framework'. Anyone be so kind as to clarify what he means. Is jquery not a language in its own right :?:
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