Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

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davenz

Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by davenz »

chrisjlocke wrote:Yes, the 'file not found' is a common one unfortunately, but is linked to the way the preview window works (or doesn't! ;))

My 'Create backups on save' is off. Have you tried increasing the refresh value to see if that helps? 1 second seems rather frequent.
Ah, that explains that. The refresh rate doesn't alter the sluggish behaviour. I have it set to 1 second because I want to view the changes I make in 'real time'. I find having it set higher results in annoying 'lags' which spoil my work flow. Having 'instant' preview is simply the most comfortable setting for me.

I guess I am just too fussy when it comes to working with editors, though I imagine if I had to wait a few seconds after typing anything into Word before I could see it I would soon get mightily hacked off with it.

Dave.
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Karlis
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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by Karlis »

You can try turning off word wrap, code collapse and any other special features, maybe it helps. I am still unable to reproduce this behavior.
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davenz

Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by davenz »

Karlis wrote:You can try turning off word wrap, code collapse and any other special features, maybe it helps. I am still unable to reproduce this behavior.
Hi Karlis

Toggling any of the options (even those that would seem to have no relevance) makes any difference.

Dave.
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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by MikeyB »

Just had another look with this file I have with the extremely long line of code.

I don't have word wrap or code collapse on.
So I renamed it to a .txt file so there would be no syntax highlighting or code completion and it's behaving the same.

When I use the down arrow key to move through the document, WeBuilder pauses for a second on this line, then carries on.
But trying to navigate/edit this long line really kills WeBuilder, taking over a minute to respond when at the end of the line.

As I say, it's now a plain text file so no syntax highlighting/checking going on.

I've uploaded the file to my googlepages as I can't seem to upload any attachments to the forum:
http://swindonmike.googlepages.com/webuilderslowdown
It's a very extreme example, but there is no mistaking the slow down.

As it's now a .txt file there is no syntax highlighting/checking, I don't have word wrap or code collapse on.
Moving up & down the document with the up/down arrow keys is fine, but it does pause on line 49 which is the very very long line.
Go to the start of line 49 and type or move the cursor left & right and you can see about half a second delay between key presses.
Now go to the end of line 49 by pressing the End key.
WeBuilder will stop responding for well over a minute, and the same if you try to move the cursor or type.
It does eventually respond and display what you're typing, but very very slowly indeed.
During this type WeBuilder is sat using 50% CPU on my PC.


Mike
davenz

Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by davenz »

Yep, that file killed WB on my machine for sure.

I would love to know what is doing it so it can be fixed; it is getting to the point as my site grows and pages fill with text that I can't use WeBuilder to edit it.

I like having the half-window view preview set so I can see changes I make in real time; with most pages, even those with very little text, everything turns to custard. Every other letter I type is not rendered and the cursor sludges down to about one flash/space a second; at this point WB is using around 50% of my CPU; no mean feat when I can have Word 2007 open with a couple of hundred pages of images and text, Opera with thirty different web sites open and I can click around any of them while my box doesn't bat an eyelid. It seems strange that I can play Call of Duty 4 on full noise for hours and not suffer any system slowdown, yet a file with a few hundred words of text in WB brings it to it's knees.

I use no resident antivirus software, antispyware software or similar file monitoring stuff either so that can't be the issue; I barely have enough services running to keep Vista alive.

Got me beat I'm afraid.

Dave.
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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by MikeyB »

Dave,

You don't have any very long lines in your files do you, as that's the only time I get any slow down at all in WB.

If I take the file I posted, and (in my other editor!) split that very long line up into smaller separate lines then WB is fine with it, so it's simply the length of that one line causing the problem.

Mike
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chrisjlocke
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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by chrisjlocke »

davenz wrote:Previously, I was just writing the entire book text inside one P tag per page/chapter and using line breaks to format it. If I do this with Webuilder, it gets to a point where my page is no longer editable as it gets so sluggish. I suppose I could use thousands of P tags to format it, but surely I shouldn't have the software dictate to me how I code my site because it breaks if I try it the way I am happiest with?
Technically, you should use P tags for paragraphs - thats the point of them, after all. You can use CSS to style these:
Image

Yes, WeBuilder shouldn't cough with long lines, but equally, it can be argued that it shouldn't have to deal with long lines - its bad coding practice.
davenz

Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by davenz »

Yes, I will use P tags, though that doesn't prevent the skipping letters and sluggish cursor when having the preview window open. That problem seems independant of the 'line of text' problem.

Mikey yes, breaking that text up solves it right away, so that is definitely the cause of the problem.

(Removed)
Last edited by davenz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chrisjlocke
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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by chrisjlocke »

davenz wrote:If they don't want to fix it, that's fine
The issue cannot be replicated, so until the problem can be isolated, it cannot be solved. The point of this thread is to try and work out whats going on. It can be a slow process. Karlis has already commented, so is aware of the problem. He usually keeps an eye on such threads letting me and other users work out the 'common' problems first, or find the 'hey, you haven't got option x and option y ticked at the same time have you?' glitches.

Thats a long winded way of saying that Karlis & Co. do want to solve this issue, but can't until the problem has been fully identified. :)
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Mot
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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by Mot »

Okay, I want you to get to the bottom of this, so I'm going to post a screen shot of what this sluggish behavior looks like in my environment.

First, this is build 9.0.0.97

I lost this entire post just a few minutes ago, so I'm rather pissy right now and will be far more brief than I was in the first go at it. Sorry.

To do this test, I launched WebBuilder and started a new html document. I had a line of code I was messing with from a previous editing session in my clipboard manager, so I just pasted it in.

The sluggishness I experience is in keyboard navigating around in code. So, for instance Ctrl+Shift+Arrow to select text a "word" at a time. Or Shift+Arrow to select character by character. Or Ctrl+Arrow to move a word at a time. And yes, even just an arrow key to move character by character without selecting anything.

BUT - AND THIS MAY BE SIGNIFICANT:
All of the above involve single taps on the arrow keys. If I hold down the arrow key to engage the auto repeat, then the cursor/selection zips right along.

There is little precision in moving at the auto repeat rate, however, and I'm sure everyone would agree that single arrow taps are what we use to select stuff, or move with precision to a specific place.

But with single arrow taps, the cursor motion is so sluggish that movement actually leaves a cursor echo on the line I'm moving through, and when selecting code, the selection lags even behind the cursor echo. In the screen shot below, I was positioned where the selection highlight begins, then held down the Ctrl+Shift and tapped the RightArrow about 8 times. It's so sluggish that I had absolutely no trouble letting go of all keys and tapping the Print Screen key to capture the effect. I'm giving you the Full Monty screen shot so you can see the entire WebBuilder environment.

Karlis, I'm sure you'll have questions at this point.

This behavior began with WebBuilder 2008. I also saw this same phenomenon in Evrsoft's First Page 2006 which also introduced begin/end tag highlighting, so I suspected that as the culprit. I have turned that off, however, with no change in the symptoms. So, naturally I turned it back on. It's an awesome feature that has already pointed out some goofs I've made.

Here's the screen shot:

Image

Hope this has been helpful, and as I say, please don't hesitate to be in touch if you need more info. I really want to see you get to the bottom of this.
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Karlis
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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by Karlis »

We have found several performance bugs which we are working to solve right now.
Karlis Blumentals
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davenz

Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by davenz »

Hi team

Has anyone found any improvement using the new version (9.1.0.98)? I see the changelog includes "+ Fixed: So called Cursor-Lag (cursor performance on key press improved by ~80%)", though I am not sure what that means. It has made no difference to the original sluggish behaviour on my machine as reported here.

Just playing around I found an interesting thing. I take a block of 600 average-sized words, which I put into one tag. WB slows slightly. If I paste two blocks, that is, 1200 words together in one tag, WB stalls completely and soaks up CPU and RAM. If I put a line break between the blocks, by hitting the enter key (with word wrap on) before pasting the second block, even though the words are still in the same tag, everything frees up again. I tried putting 5000 words in the same tag, with line breaks every 500 words, and WB works fine. Take the line spaces/breaks out and WB hangs. Weird, but a kind of workaround if needed.

Dave.
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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by Karlis »

Dave, the length of any separate line should not exceed 1000 characters. If you will have say 100 words on the same line, WeBuilder will slow down as the code processing is optimized for average web code.
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davenz

Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by davenz »

So my post above, which contains 171 words and 941 characters would be, in your opinion, too much for one single tag?

I must be far from understanding this because that doesnt seem right to me.

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Re: Sluggish behaviour in WeBuilder

Post by Karlis »

Not for single tag, but for single line. Let me show you what I mean. let's take <p> tag.

Wrong:

Code: Select all

<p>word word word word word word word word word word word... (repeated like 100 times w/o any line break)</p>
Right:

Code: Select all

<p>word word word word word word word word word word word word
word word word word word word word word word word word word
word word word word word word word word word word word word
word word word word word word word word word word word word
word word word word word word word word word word word word
word word word word word word word word word word word word
word word word word word word word word word word word word
word word word word word word word word word word word word
word word word word word word word word word</p>
As you can see, you can split long texts with line breaks. Line breaks have no efect in HTML code.
Karlis Blumentals
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