utf8/ANSI

[guenter]

Hi
I am using the webuilder 10 now since a few months (incl. testing time) and I think it is a very good prog for coding php or html sites.
Because I am from germany we have always the difficulty to convert the charsets.
This would be not so much problem, when I make a page in utf8* (without bom) and all contents which will be included have also the same character charset.

Now, the problem is, when I make a new page in utf8* and in the page is actually no unicode character found when saving the file, WB makes automatic the page in ANSI.
But in dynamic web pages the content often comes later from different areas like a data base or form fields.

Here it would be very much better, when the page, where the dynamic utf8-content will be included is still in utf8* as I have created it.
I know you say it is not a bug, and maybe you're right, but imho for coders it would be easier, when WB would not change automatically the char coding.

How do think other users about this opinian and would it be possible to change this in an update?

much greetings from germany
GĆ¼nter

[Dimox]

I agree with guenter, I have the same problem.

[mapleleaf]

English
Like you I have been using only WeBuilder for a short period of time including testing the program out.
As I am not German but live in Germany, I have experienced a similar issue or problem as you did but perhaps in the reverse.

The problem I had was the umlauts since I only have English software on/in my PC system and as a web developer I needed to be cognizant of the various browsers that are used that is to say the top six browser version used to surf the internet, namely: IE, FF, Chrome(Google), Opera, Safari and Maxthon(this browser is mainly used in Asia and has approximately 1 billion users, it is an off-shoot or closely linked to IE).

The top two browsers were/are problematic in particular when it relates to using the umlauts of the German language.

Here are the steps that I took to overcome the problems that I encountered:

1. made sure that I used for each browser the proper and correct encoding as you will or have configured the browsers with WeBuilder for testing the code
(a) for IE; by default I use for development IE8
- open IE then select 'page' and click on 'encoding'
- select " UNICODE (UTF-8)
- make sure also that 'left-to-right' is selected. we in the western world read 'left -right' as opposed to in Asia, the middle east and other parts of the world read 'right-left'
This now is the default setting for my IE.

(b) for FF; you can make the same setting within FF as follows:
- open FF then select view >> character encoding >> then select ' UNICODE (UTF-8)

In addition, I also made sure that I have/and install as a supplementary dictionary
1. the German dictionary to my OS (operating system) and in my case I still use XP
2. and for quick reference the two following links that often is very handy when coding in either html, xhtml and CSS
- http://www.html-php-mysql.de/generatoren/unicode.php
- http://www.w3schools.com/tags/ref_entities.asp OR install the following program(freeware) http://translateclient.com/


German
Wie Sie habe ich nur mit WeBuilder fĆ¼r einen kurzen Zeitraum einschlieƟlich Testen des Programms aus.

Da ich nicht Deutsch, sondern leben in Deutschland bin, habe ich ein Ƥhnliches Problem oder ein Problem erfahren, wie Sie aber vielleicht in der RĆ¼ckseite.

Das Problem, das ich hatte, war die Umlaute da habe ich nur Englisch Software auf / in mein PC-System und als Web-Entwickler ich brauchte, um bewusst den verschiedenen Browsern, die verwendet werden, die sind zu sagen die ersten sechs Browser-Version verwendet werden, um im Internet surfen , nƤmlich: IE, FF, Chrome (Google), Opera, Safari und Maxthon (dieser Browser ist hauptsƤchlich in Asien eingesetzt und hat rund 1 Milliarde Nutzer ist es ein Ableger oder eng mit IE).

Die oberen beiden Browsern waren / sind problematisch, insbesondere wenn es um die Verwendung der Umlaute der deutschen Sprache betrifft.

Hier sind die Schritte, die ich nahm, um die Probleme, die ich gestoƟen zu Ć¼berwinden:

1. dafĆ¼r gesorgt, dass ich fĆ¼r jeden broswer verwendet die ordnungsgemƤƟe und korrekte Kodierung als Sie oder wil konfiguriert haben die Browser mit WeBuilder zum Testen des Codes
Ā Ā Ā Ā (A) fĆ¼r IE; standardmƤƟig verwende ich fĆ¼r die Entwicklung IE8
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā - Offene IE und wƤhlen Sie dann "Seite" und klicken Sie auf 'encoding'
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā - WƤhlen Sie "Unicode (UTF-8)
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā - Vergewissern Sie sich auƟerdem, dass "von links nach rechts" ausgewƤhlt ist. wir in der westlichen Welt gelesen "Links-Rechts", wie in Asien gegenĆ¼ber, dem Nahen Osten und anderen Teilen der Welt gelesen "rechts-links"
Ā Ā Ā Das ist nun die Standardeinstellung fĆ¼r mein IE.

Ā Ā Ā Ā (B) fĆ¼r FF, kƶnnen Sie die gleiche Einstellung innerhalb FF wie folgt:
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā - Offene FF und wƤhlen Sie dann Ansicht>> Zeichenkodierung>> wƤhlen Sie "Unicode (UTF-8)

Ā Ā Ā DarĆ¼ber hinaus habe ich auch sicher, dass ich / haben und installieren als supllemntary Wƶrterbuch
Ā Ā Ā 1. der Deutsch Wƶrterbuch zu meinem OS (Operating System) und in meinem Fall habe ich noch mit XP
Ā Ā Ā 2. und zum schnellen Nachschlagen der beiden folgenden Links, die oft sehr praktisch, wenn Codierung in HTML, XHTML und CSS
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā - Http://www.html-php-mysql.de/generatoren/unicode.php
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā - Http://www.w3schools.com/tags/ref_entities.asp Oder installieren Sie das folgende Programm (Freeware) http://translateclient.com/

Hope this helps Sie aber es ist durchaus mƶglich, dass Sie mƶglicherweise Ć¼ber diese in erster Linie haben, aber unerfahrene Anwender kƶnnen mit dieser geholfen werden.


mapleleaf
http://www.mirana.net

[guenter]

Hi mapleleaf,

I think your answer maybe is helpful for some users if they have general problems with unicodes.
But it doesn't concern to my ask.
Because I ( or also Dimox ) have no problem with any kind of browsers (because they only read what you code), but with WB and its automatically changing of the dynamic page charset from utf8* to ANSI.

Perhaps can Karlis give us a statement, if there is the possibility for an update, where this bug is fixed (yes I call it bug).

GĆ¼nter

[mapleleaf]

Hi mapleleaf,

I think your answer maybe is helpful for some users if they have general problems with unicodes.
But it doesn't concern to my ask.
Because I ( or also Dimox ) have no problem with any kind of browsers (because they only read what you code), but with WB and its automatically changing of the dynamic page charset from utf8* to ANSI.

Perhaps can Karlis give us a statement, if there is the possibility for an update, where this bug is fixed (yes I call it bug).

GĆ¼nter

Grusse aus Bad salzuflen

Now I do not have this problem with WB. I have by default set WB to utf8.

I can load my web pages into it, and they are saved as utf8.

Then clearing WB and selected start a new page, it comes up as utf8. Then IF I save it exit wb and recall it it is shown as utf8.

IMHO
A bug is more correctly defined when the author defines it as a bug otherwise it is an issue that needs attention AND is most cases is a cause with the user and this is from my past experience.


mapleleaf

[x3po]

Now I do not have this problem with WB. I have by default set WB to utf8.

There is a difference between utf-8 (with BOM) and utf-8* (without BOM) in WB.

[mapleleaf]

There is a difference between utf-8 (with BOM) and utf-8* (without BOM) in WB.

yes of course I do agree I did forget in my previous post to clearify myself

I automatically was referring to utf8* when I was referring to utf8.

I by default have all of my web pages in utf8*.


mapleleaf

[Gatis]

Hi,

Here it would be very much better, when the page, where the dynamic utf8-content will be included is still in utf8* as I have created it.
I know you say it is not a bug, and maybe you're right, but imho for coders it would be easier, when WB would not change automatically the char coding.

You say the product is automatically changing the char encoding, but it is not.
Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

Text that is only ASCII letters stored in UTF-8 would be identical to ASCII if it were not for the BOM, thus guaranteeing compatibility.

So, with a "UTF-8 without BOM file", if there are no non-ASCII characters inside your text, nobody can tell what you wanted the encoding to be - IT IS ASCII file. Just as simple as that.
And we are not going to remember the encoding of the file in some sort of database, to change it back to it each time a document is opened. So, currently this seems not possible to do.

Maybe the workaround would be to include a comment in your file with a non-ASCII character?

Gatis

[piposek]

Yes, the best way is to write a comment using some Unicode - for me it is easy, as I am Czech

[ttx]

I know, that there is now way to know the difference between utf8 encoded files and ascii encoded files if they contain only ascii letters. But i would like rapid php to fallback to default encoding set in options (in my case UTF8 without bom)
- when i open file with only ascii letters -> editor sets encoding to UTF8 without bom (from options) (When i save the file, no conversion will be made because file still contains only ascii letters. When i add special characters not present in ascii and save the file, then the file will be saved as utf8 - exactly as i want...)

[Gatis]

- when i open file with only ascii letters -> editor sets encoding to UTF8 without bom (from options) (When i save the file, no conversion will be made because file still contains only ascii letters. When i add special characters not present in ascii and save the file, then the file will be saved as utf8 - exactly as i want...)

To my mind, this could be a good solution. We will discuss this in our next meeting with Karlis, and if all is ok, it will be implemented.

Gatis

[Aivars]

It's not that simple, someone might want to save file containing special characters in the default windows codebase (I assume it's Windows-1257 for you Gatis ). So you should leave a chance for users to save files with special characters as non-UTF-8 files.

Imho this is rather a question of defaults. Currently default encoding for new files is ANSI and you have to change it to save as BOMless UTF-8. I think nowadays default encoding should be BOMless UTF-8, which can be changed to ANSI if needed.

[guenter]

I agree with Aivars 100%

It is an annoying thing.
Because I mostly make php files I always include a comment like this :

Code: Select all

<?php // Ć¼nicode* ?>

then it works.

But this is no end solution!

[daredare]

without BOM also works with php session, cause if i make a ANSI document it will work ok with php session, if i transform it to UTF-8 some invisible character will make sessions not work.
and btw all pages dont need to be in unicode, ansi still matches many scenarios.