[WB 2010.02.118] Mouse Button OnPress Closes Taskbar Files

[CaliforniaJerry]

WeBuilder 2010 v10.02.118
Windows XP SP-2

In the Firefox browser, when you use the Mouse Wheel Button to close a tab, it doesn't close until you release the button. This allows you to cancel the action by moving the mouse cursor away from the tab.

In WeBuilder, when you select a file "tab" in the "status" bar, using the mouse wheel button, the file closes on the down-click [OnPress] instead of the release [OnRelease]. It isn't a show stopper, but it is an inconstant implementation that probably should be fixed.

[Karlis]

It can not be called inconsistent as in the Internet Explorer it works onMouseDown and so it does in some other applications. So I believe there is no standard. We will leave it there for a while unless we receive more requests to make a change.

[CaliforniaJerry]

The way I see it is, there is no advantage to having a negative action, such as tab close, on a MouseDown event. However, THERE IS an advantage to having such an action on MouseUp. (You can cancel the event before it is finalized.) This is not a priority issue, but I question the logic of such behavior where performance improvement of the time it takes to release a button is not an issue.

Here's a good article about the issue: http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/455184-IE8-Why-MS-loves-MouseDown-event-so-much/

BlackTiger: Again, again and again... Why IE closes tab on "middle mouse" MouseDown event instead of MouseUp/MouseClick?

It's beyond my understanding...

It's always a very bad idea to do any 'complete' action inside Mouse/Key "Down" event. You can start some action like Drag-N-Drop inside such event, but not FINISH!

BruceMorgan: Most operations on the tab row respond to down events rather than up events for perceived performance reasons. It's quite literally half a click faster to switch tabs or close a tab on down.

Yes, it means you can't cancel a tab switch or tab close action once you've started. This is a case of optimizing UX for the vastly more common operation (switch or close a tab) by removing the uncommon operation (abort a switch or close tab operation by moving the mouse away and releasing). For some operations it's still appropriate to allow cancellation so the action is performanced on mouse up.

UX guidelines evolve. Rigid decades-old "always respond to mouse up so the user can cancel the operation" rules aren't correct for all circumstances.

And this isn't really rocket science, not even computer science. To a lot of people, down feels "quicker" and "natural". I recall that Firefox used to switch tabs on mouseup and somewhere along the way (2.0 I think) they switched to mousedown as well.

Bas: This was in the Vista UX guidelines. I can understand that they're guidelines rather than rules, and that sometimes it's more appropriate to deviate from them, but they certainly weren't "rigid, decades-old" guidelines when IE7 was released.

[Karlis]

Both sides discussed in the excerpts you posted, that is nice. While it would be interesting to discuss this further from the usability science point, I think we shall stick to what we have unless we receive more feedback from our actual customers.

I tested it with friends and they seemed to like the speed of mousedown better while I myself find mouseup more sensible. Of course, mousedown performanc eimprovement comes at a price of possible unintended acton (accidental click) but then again this is why we have "save prompts".

[MikeyB]

Have to say I'm not bothered by the way it works.

Till CaliforniaJerry pointed it out I didn't even know WeBuilder & Firefox behaved differently at all.
All I knew was that I click a tab with the mouse wheel and it closes!

An odd case I have found is Visual Studio 2005.
While it closes a tab on the mouse-up, you can't cancel it by moving the mouse away from the tab, it will still close, in fact it selects the tab first and then closes it.
It seems even Microsoft are not consistent in this.

[CaliforniaJerry]

I must revisit this topic because I absolutely "hate" the Mouse-Down Action of this close tab functionality, and after a year, it is still driving me "nuts". The only advantage you mention is it's quicker to close a multiple tabs. Well, since you must perform a Mouse-Up action everytime you move to another tab to close it, your logic is flawed. There is no benefit. In my case, since I expect a mouse-up action, I have been closing tabs by mistake. This is a time-waster, indeed.

I don't use IE, but I just checked MSIE8 and you have to click on the x to close a tab. My middle mouse button (wheel) doesn't close them. So, I don't see a convention there on which to base this.

In ALL the arguments which argue FOR mouse-down action, there is a disclaimer that discusses why mouse-up is better. For all the people who are not affected by the mouse-down action, having it changed to mouse-up will not be an issue, they will always have to "release" the button in either case. For those of us who ARE affected, we have no alternative. Mouse-down does harm. Mouse-Up does not. How much more simple can it be than this?

WeBuilder is the ONLY app I personally have seen that uses a mouse-down event activation.

You "Expect" a triggered event to be mouse-up by all conventonal usage I have seen:
- Drag and drop in any application
- Firefox close tab
- Xneat Window Taskbar manager
- Keyword Research Tools
- Text Editors such as NotePad++
- NoteZilla, when selection actions in the menu or toolbar
- Microsoft Excel, when clicking on a Hyperlink in a cell (it only activates AFTER you release the button)
- Every other app that uses Hyperlinks, you must release the button to activate the link
- Photoshop
- Microsoft Windows Explorer
- FileZilla FTP
- EVERY other app I use...

Do you want more evidence of a standard convention? Did I hear you say, "Yes"?
OK, here's the real kicker --- Post a reply to a thread in THIS (or any) forum. Then try a mouse-down on one of the buttons. Try posting a reply and clicking on "Save", "Preview", or "Submit". Are THEY Mouse-Down triggered? Guess what? That's a BIG FAT No!
- Ok, you still want more? Try the smiles to the right of your post. Mouse-Down, or Mouse-Up?
- Next, try the buttons on top for the Rich Text editor, "B", "i", "Quote", "Code", etc.
- Now, try the "Topic review" link to the right in the sidebar just below the smilies.
- You want STILL MORE? OK. Try clicking on one of the "Options" CHECK BOXES below your reply post, "Disable BBCode", "Disable smilies", etc.

Getting my point? Allrightythen.

[Gatis]

Thank you for your extensive report.
Although you have many valid points, I can not say this will be made the way you ask, sorry. I will talk about this with Karlis.
Please cast your votes for the change here.

[chrisjlocke]

I'm another one for mouse-up clicks, instead of mouse-down. I'm used to VB6 development, where a button is pushed down, and its the release of the button that 'triggers' the action. Its surprising how many applications don't follow this 'standard' (which I appreciate is not a standard!) even by the same publisher, such as Microsoft. I'm using Opera, and clicking on 'New tab' doesn't create a new tab until the mouse is released. Switching to a tab however, occurs when you mouse-down.

The ribbon bar is another head scratcher. Click a button to display the drop-down menu. Sometimes, you can click the same button to 'cancel' the menu. In other programs, it cancels the menu, only to display it again. There is no such thing as 'consistency' in software programming. If only it was an OS option, rather than an application option. People could then change it as required on their own preference.

[MikeyB]

Some quick tests on how different programs handle tab closing:
Dev tools:
Visual Studio 2010 - mouse down
Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio - mouse up
Visual Studio 2005 - mouse up
EditPlus 3 - mouse down

Browsers:
IE8 - mouse down
Firefox 4 - mouse up
Opera 11 - mouse down
Chrome 11 - mouse up
Safari 5 - mouse up

There is just no consistency in this, just depends on what the developers opted for at the time.

But as I said before, till I just tested the programs above, I didn't know they were any different, as far as I was concerned the tab closed when I clicked the mouse wheel button.

[CaliforniaJerry]

Activation on Mouse Down can be potentially harmful.
Activation on Mouse Up is never harmful, and in fact can be helpful.

I've worked with developers from Intel, Microsoft, Adaptec, Borland, and others. Some are excellent, some are mediocre, and some just make a mess of things. I'm not saying I know everything or that my ideas are always the best, in fact, when presented with adequate information and a new perspective, I often see things from a new perspective and will reverse my strategy. Sharing ideas is the key. The final decision is yours, but I think my logic is valid. I have not seen anything yet to convince me otherwise.

[MikeyB]

Activation on Mouse Down can be potentially harmful.
Activation on Mouse Up is never harmful, and in fact can be helpful.

Not sure I get what you are saying, how can it be helpfull if it closes that tab on mouse up rather than mouse down?
Surely the end result is the same, the tab closes?

[CaliforniaJerry]

Not sure I get what you are saying, how can it be helpfull if it closes that tab on mouse up rather than mouse down? Surely the end result is the same, the tab closes?

What's helpful is having a second chance to change your mind. You click on the wrong tab, perhaps, or suddenly remember, "Oh, wait! I need to make one more change." Or, "Oops, just clicked on the wrong tab, it was the other file I needed to close, not this one...".

There's no way to back out of the action. Whereas if action (close tab) is not taken until 'on-mouse-up', then it gives you a chance to cancel the action. For example, while the button is 'down', if you move away from the object and then release, the action will be cancelled. That's what's helpful. So, not only is it not harmful, it can sometimes be helpful.

Some have argued that 'on-mouse-down' can be helpful in the sense that it saves time. I don't see how this saves time. You still have to release the button before moving to the next item. But the fact that it does not allow you to cancel the action is what can be harmful.

[MikeyB]

Ah I see what you mean, yeah.
Again, personally never knew you could do that, can be useful, and would be the best way to handle these things.

But as is typical not every program I have that closes on mouse up behaves in that way, some still close the tab if I move the mouse away from the tab! Do'h